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« on: July 09, 2009, 08:54:51 AM »
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My first interest in the linguistic line of inquiry came from reading that the Aztecs considered their "mythical" ancestral homeland to be "Aztlan", and it struck me how similar that sounded to "Atlantis".  I didn't immediately launch into an investigation, but I held that in the back of my mind.

Later I was reading about the Mayan calendar in the hope of a good debunking of the "2012" crap (long story), but then I came across a note that the Mayan name for the ancestral homeland was "Tulan".  At that time it first struck me out similar that sounded, to "Thule", and then it immediately resonated that "Aztlan", "Tulan", "Thule", and "Atlantis", could all be varying pronunciations of the same place-name.  One of the first research "hits" I came upon was a city in central American named "Tollan", and more recently, a temple in Guatemala named "Tulum".  And of course an under-educated observation of the Nahuatl language seems to explode in "-tl" particles all over the place, so some sort of a tl-related root seemed to bear a high significance to that group.

So when I firmly placed myself in the cockpit of a daring etymological test craft, I made a semi-educated guess that perhaps the original name for "Atlantis" might have been:  "Aztulan".  It could morph toward "Atlantis" and "Thule" in the east (Egypt and Greece), and toward "Tulan" and "Aztlan" in the west.  And by extension I began to suspect that many other words in these relevant language groups could have had similar Atlantean origins.  My first crack at it was:

m/o = "morphed off", taken on a word from outside, unrelated to the original Atlantean

fire
euskara:   su
magyar:   tuzeles
sumerian: kur
breton:   tan (m/o)
polynesian: ahi
turkish:    alev
finnish:    tuli
dravidian: ali
nahuatl:    tletl
sanskrit:    agni
egyptian:     sedjet
Atlant.:    tzuarhei

blood
euskara:    odol
magyar:   ver
sumerian: dam (m/o)
breton:      gwad
polynesian:   toto
turkish:   kan (m/o)
finnish:   veri
dravidian:   eruvai
nahuatl:   eztli
sanskrit:   asrij
egyptian:   senef (m/o)
Atlant.:   gwerduli

nine
euskara:   bederatzi (m/o)
magyar:      kilenc
sumerian:   ilimmu (m/o)
breton:      nav (m/o)
polynesian:   iva
turkish:   dokuz
finnish:   yhdeksan
dravidian:   ompotu (m/o)
nahuatl:   chiconahui
sanskrit:   nav (m/o)
egyptian:   pesedjet (m/o)
Atlant.:   kilksva

moon
euskara:   ilargi
magyar:      hold
sumerian:   itud
breton:      loar
polynesian:   ahoroa (m/o)
turkish:   ay (m/o)
finnish:   kuu   (m/o)
dravidian:   ampuli (m/o)
nahuatl:   metztli
sanskrit:   indu
egyptian:   abed (m/o)
Atlant.:   iltzurdi

salt
euskara:   gatz
magyar:      so
sumerian:   mun (m/o)
breton:      holen (m/o)
polynesian:   miti
turkish:   tuz
finnish:   suola
dravidian:   uppu (m/o)
nahuatl:   iztatl
sanskrit:   lavanamh (m/o)
egyptian:   hemat (m/o)
Atlant.:   gitzul

red
euskara:   gorri    
magyar:      piros (m/o)
sumerian:   su
breton:      ruz
polynesian:   kura
turkish:   kirmuzi
finnish:   punaimen (m/o)
dravidian:   se
nahuatl:   tlatlahuic
sanskrit:   rakta (m/o)
egyptian:   d'sher
Atlant.:   kurumzic

below
euskara:   behean
magyar:      alatt
sumerian:   kita (m/o)
breton:      dindan (m/o)
polynesian:   raro
turkish:   asagi (m/o)
finnish:   alle
dravidian:   ro'i
nahuatl:   tlani
sanskrit:   adhah (m/o)
egyptian:   kef (m/o)
Atlant.:   ealonti

circle
euskara:   obo (m/o)
magyar:      kor
sumerian:   gur
breton:      ribl (m/o)
polynesian:   menemene (m/o)
turkish:   halka
finnish:   kierrella
dravidian:   ikura
nahuatl:   yahualtic
sanskrit:   chakra
egyptian:   (not found)
Atlant.:   kiurlka

breathe
euskara:   arnasa hartu
magyar:      lelegzik (m/o)
sumerian:   zi paan paan (m/o)
breton:      alanat
polynesian:   aho
turkish:   mefes almak (m/o)
finnish:   hengittaa
dravidian:   irvai
nahuatl:   ihoytl
sanskrit:   shvasiti
egyptian:   tjaw (m/o)
Atlant.:   iharnsat

bull
euskara:   zezen   
magyar:      bika
sumerian:   gurra
breton:      kole
polynesian:   (none)
turkish:   boga
finnish:   sonni (m/o)
dravidian:   erutu (m/o)
nahuatl:   cuacuahue
sanskrit:   go
egyptian:   ka
Atlant.:   guzguana

menses
euskara:   odol (blood)
magyar:      ver (blood)
sumerian:   us
breton:      gwad (blood)
polynesian:   toto (blood)
turkish:   adet
finnish:   kuukautiset (m/o)
dravidian:   antu
nahuatl:   ez
sanskrit:   raktam (m/o)
egyptian:   senef (blood) (m/o)
Atlant.:   andetzus

witch
euskara:   sorgin
magyar:      boszorkany
sumerian:   umma (m/o)
breton:      sorserez
polynesian:   tahunga (m/o)
turkish:   cadi
finnish:   noita
dravidian:   siraha
nahuatl:   nahualli (m/o)
sanskrit:   abhichaara (m/o)
egyptian:   heka
Atlant.:   sorgandi

Proximity Quotients to Atlantean by Language (fewest morph-offs):
Nahuatl:     11/12
Euskara:   10/12
Magyar:      10/12
Finnish:   08/12
Dravidian:     08/12
Turkish:    08/12
Polynesian:   08/12
Breton:      07/12
Sumerian:   06/12
Sanskrit:   06/12
Egyptian:   04/12


Later on I decided to experiment with new words and get a wider view of where some of the similarities and differences lie between these loosely-connected language groups (or more tightly-connected between Basque, Magyar and Nahuatl).  I wanted to pin the morphology to the development of animal husbandry so I started to focus more on words like "cow, ox, pasture, ranch, flock", etc.  I noticed that while the "exact" meanings differed from language to language, a root word that resonated just about everywhere was "TURA".  In Sumerian we have "DURA", a cattle ranch, and "GURRA", a bull.  In Breton we have "KOLE" for a bull.  In gaelic we have "TOR" for a hill, which is where most ancient cattle pens were built so as to be more defensible.  And there are the more obvious "TOR-" cattle words (TORO, TAURUS) in Latin, Greek, et al.  Codes of laws seem to have emerged at the same time as animal husbandry, evidenced by "OTURE", for "law" in Basque, "TURE" for "law" in Polynesian, and "TORAH" for "law" in Hebrew.  Languages which are supposed to be wholly unconnected still seem to glue together when it comes to this very ancient concept.

The TURA root was so comprehensively important in ancient languages that it seems the entire Turkic race is named after it:  "TURAN".  This identifies them as the people most famously known for animal husbandry on the Eurasian steppes, and the race who probably first discovered the technique.

Getting back to the name "Aztulan" we see a compelling theory now taking place for what the name meant.  The "TULAN" part most likely had an agricultural/pastoral significance, as this culture probably identified themselves strongly with the Central Asian race which invented the craft of "TURA", or, herding animals (and from that basis establishing civilization, codes of laws, etc.)  The "Az-" prefix is interesting because of the name of the Basques, sometimes rendered "Vasc" or "Vaz" or "Az".  In Magyar this connotes "Iron" which is plentiful in the pyrenée mountains and in Navarre especially.  "Aztulan" may have combined those elements of identification, to mean, "the iron forging cattle men".  The iron age for Atlantis may have come much earlier than it did to the rest of the world, which would have allowed Rome-like advances in ship-building and warfare, and Viking-like advances in navigation (and they may have even had the compass if some of their iron had become magnetized by volcanic activity in the Azores).

Even though the above of fairly speculative, it's not without supporting evidence.  There is Asturia in north-western Spain as a further footprint.  We also have:

Taurus region in Anatolia (an- "not", atolia, "azturanian", "non-Atlantean" alternate meaning?)
Thr-aikos (Thracians, as opposed to the Graikos or Greeks)
Tro-as (Troy)
Uranus (Turanus?)
Sa-tyr
Tulare (Toltec city in California)
Tularosa (Toltec city in New Mexico)
Toltecs themselves (TUL-tec?)
 
Quotes:
"many chroniclers do cite an earlier migration of the Nahuatl-speaking peoples as
having come from across the ocean, landing in what is today the Panuco River.  Half
the people purportedly went north, the other half went south."
--The True Meaning and Age of the Toltecs by Theun Mares
 
"Now the Atlantians, dwelling as they do in the regions on the edge of the ocean
and inhabiting a fertile territory, are reputed far to excel their neighbours
in reverence towards the gods and the humanity they showed in their dealings
with strangers, and the gods, they say, were born among them. And their account,
they maintain, is in agreement with that of the most renowned of the Greek
poets when he represents Hera as saying: 'For I go to see the ends of the bountiful earth,
Oceanus source of the gods and Tethys divine Their mother.'"
--Historical Library, Book III Chapter 56, Diodorus Siculus

"By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night, On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule —
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime, Out of Space — out of Time." --Edgar Allen Poe
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2009, 02:41:45 PM »
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Giggy thank you for linguistic information. It's very interesting!
12,500 years ago ancestors of Aztecs, Maya and other American aborigines' tribes were very primitive and almost wild and naked people. survived small groups of Atlantians had became their gods, teachers, kings, priests, etc. Assimilated generation could not continue Atlantians technical knowledge. Asimilated generation would have been elite of developing people. Atlantians were ancestors for assimilated generation (elite), not for whole wild tribe. proofs from "Main Temple" - Tulum ruins - Yucatan, Mexico are conclusive evidences. http://www.cosmogeology.ge/chapter.htm eventually hieroglyphs of Atlantis and their knowledge had been unable to understend for assimilated generation.

A don't like word Ancient Egyptian. Elite of the Egypt were assimilated generation of left-handed and long-fingered race from Atlantis. After the Nubian occupation  almost all elite abandon  second motherland and had been dispersed within developing peoples of Mediterranean Sea. Their slave and primitive people could not create country! Thus Atlantian-Egyptian knowledge and religion had been adapted within Mediterranean developing cultures. Evolution of Egypt had been ceased! Eventually it became colony of Greeks and later on of Romans!
For centuries assimilated generation of left-handed and long-fingered race were elite worldwide. Clue is "discoveries" of Atlantis everywhere!

K.M.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 12:46:10 PM by K.Margiani »
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 02:15:23 PM »
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Giggy thank you for linguistic information. It's wery interesting!
12,500 years ago ancestors of Aztecs, Maya and other American aborigines' tribes were very primitive and almost wild and naked people. survived small groups of Atlantians had became their gods, teachers, kings, priests, etc. Assimilated generation could not continue Atlantians technical knowledge. Asimilated generation would have been elite of developing people. Atlantians were ancestors for assimilated generation (elite), not for whole wild tribe. proofs from "Main Temple" - Tulum ruins - Yucatan, Mexico are conclusive evidences. http://www.cosmogeology.ge/chapter.htm eventually hieroglyphs of Atlantis and their knowledge had been unable to understend for assimilated generation.


"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed is King," they say.  It wouldn't take much in the way of "superior Atlantean technology" to be highly impressive to the natives of the Americas.  An iron-age or classical-level culture roughly similar to Rome in technology would be more than sufficient to arrive as "gods" in the west, and among the more advanced natives of the east to at least get the Egyptians and Greeks to admit that the elite among Atlanteans were of divine (or semi-divine) origin.  One reason I fold the Bock Saga into all this is that Ior Bock describes a very detailed and involved breeding program practiced by the royalty in "the Atlantis time".  The King and Queen were not married to each other, but rather, were brother and sister as co-rulers who didn't mate with each other.  When it came time for the King to marry, his bride was selected from among the "most beautiful and healthy" among women of all the lands known to them, all the tributary colonies, etc.  It didn't matter what her race or class was, but was more like a "miss universe pageant", with the prize being crowned as a new member of the royal family.  Traditionally she was supposed to bear 12 sons and 7 daughters before her duties of motherhood were considered accomplished.  Then the best of the 12 sons and the best of the 7 daughters would be the new generation of brother-sister co-rulers (but again, not breeding with each other), and a new "breeding pageant" would take place, and so on.  In this way the Atlantean royal family (according to the Saga) was continuously improving itself, whereas medieval European families, by only marrying other royalty, was continuously degenerating.  Over thousands of years, this breeding program allegedly produced a very extraordinary royal family, in terms of stature, health, abilities, intelligence, etc.  This was probably close to the Nietschean idea of the "ubermensch".  Now, if you imagine people with these traits landing on a primitive continent, with their appearance as well as their technologies (perhaps the compass and other quasi-medieval advances), then yeah, they'd probably be worshipped as gods in most places.

Clue is "discoveries" of Atlantis everywhere!


Or cultures influenced by Atlantean ideas in architecture, culture, etc.  Possibly just via trade contact.

"By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night, On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule —
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime, Out of Space — out of Time." --Edgar Allen Poe
Paradigm shift happens.
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2009, 09:55:33 PM »
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Decided this needed its own thread. Ciggy feel free to re-title your initial post and I'll apply to all posts.

I am heading out, but I do have some questions I intend to post later.

-Doug

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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2009, 11:40:35 AM »
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English            Georgian  (East Iberian)                                 
       
Fire                 [ tsetsxli, ali, kotsoni ]
blood               [ siskhli ]
nine                 [ tskhra ]
Moon                [ mtvare ]
Sun                  [ mze ]
star                  [ varskvlavi ]
salt                  [ marili ]
red                   [ tsiteli ]
below               [ qveda, qvevita, dabla, qvesh, naklebad, naklebi]
circle                [ tsre, spero ]
breathe             [ suntqva ]
bull                   [ khari ]
witch                [ jadoqari, jadosani ]
priest                [ qurumi ]
king                  [ mepe ]
qween               [ dedopali ]
kingdom             [ samepo ]
sea                   [ zgva ]
stone                 [ qva ]
limestone            [kirqva ]
gold                    [ oqro ]
silver                  [ vertskhli ]
copper                [ spilendzi ]
iron                    [ rkina ]
ship                    [gemi ]
boat                   [ navi ]
sail                     [ ialqani. apra]
Georgian words are written as a transcription for english spiking people to say accurate georgian words. We have no transcription!
K.M
« Last Edit: July 13, 2009, 02:25:05 AM by K.Margiani »
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« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2009, 12:16:49 AM »
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Hello Ciggy,

Here are your lists in table form:
firebloodninemoonsaltredbelowcirclebreathebullmenseswitchProximity
nahuatl:tletleztlichiconahui    metztliiztatltlatlahuictlaniyahualticihoytlcuacuahue    eznahualli*11/12
euskara:suodolbederatzi*ilargigatzgorribeheanobo*arnasa hartuzezenodol (blood)sorgin10/12
magyar:tuzelesverkilencholdsopiros*alattkorlelegzik*bikaver (blood)boszorkany10/12
polynesian:   ahitotoivaahoroa*    mitikurararomenemene*    aho(none)toto (blood)tahunga*08/12
turkish:alevkan*dokuzay*tuzkirmuziasagi*halkamefes almak*bogaadetcadi08/12
finnish:tuliveriyhdeksankuu*suolapunaimen*    allekierrellahengittaasonni*kuukautiset*noita08/12
dravidian:alieruvaiompotu*ampuli*uppu*sero'iikurairvaierutu*antusiraha08/12
breton:tan*gwadnav*loarholen*ruzdindan*    ribl*alanatkolegwad (blood)sorserez07/12
sumerian: kurdam*ilimmu*itudmun*sukita*gurzi paan paan*    gurrausumma*06/12
sanskrit:agniasrijnav*indulavanamh*    rakta*adhah*chakrashvasitigoraktam*abhichaara*       06/12
egyptian:sedjetsenef*pesedjet*abed*hemat*d'sherkef*(not found)tjaw*kasenef (blood)*    heka04/12
Atlantean:tzuarhei    gwerduli    kilksvailtzurdigitzulkurumzicealontikiurlkaiharnsatguzguanaandetzussorgandi
  • * Morphed off, taken on a word from outside, unrelated to the original Atlantean

Your tables are not suggesting that the 11 sample languages are descended from Atlantean, but that words transformed as tribes or peoples splintered apart, with Atlanteans being one of these splinter groups. Is this somewhat correct? Do you foresee an effective way to track the path of splintering among the peoples associated with these languages, perhaps by somehow graphing out this linguistic splintering alongside genetic migrations?

Obviously, as you yourself admit, the resultant Atlantean words are highly speculative. Are they intended to be used as a rough guide in pinpointing the descendants of Atlantis, similar in the way computer morphing technology might approximate the appearance of a child in adulthood? How would this be done? Would this again involve genetic migrations?

One of the things I noticed in your lists is how all the Atlantean words are lengthy and polysyllabic. Most of the sampled languages have a few monosyllabic words in the list and Polynesian, which does not, has many words composed of three or four letters and two syllables. Shouldn't common words like fire and blood have been weighted in your system toward shortness in line with the rest of the words in a column?

-Doug

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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2009, 08:35:00 AM »
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Quote - "One reason I fold the Bock Saga into all this is that Ior Bock describes a very detailed and involved breeding program practiced by the royalty in "the Atlantis time".  The King and Queen were not married to each other, but rather, were brother and sister as co-rulers who didn't mate with each other."

We have excellent ancient epic "the Knight in the Panther’s Skin" that dedicated to love of a man and a woman. A man with clothes of tiger or lion was much more respected among hunters in the ancient tribes of east Iberians for bravery. According of the epic a man and a woman had equal rights in the ancient east Iberian tribe. 
"they have equal rights, males and females of lion’s whelps " written in the epic.  The epic is based on historical sources saved by east Iberian priests.
Men and women of haplogroup X2 were fighting together for survivability. respect of women is ancient tradition. Lions and tigress went extinct long ago around Caucasus mountain chains. lots of hard of bulls and cows were fighting for survivability against lions and tigers there.
I have no suspect about equal rights among a man and a woman in the Atlantis kingdoms (haplogroup X1). Of course it connected to the roots, to the haplogroup X, before the global flood boundary 24500 years ago
K.M.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2009, 10:06:50 AM by K.Margiani »
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« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2009, 08:23:28 AM »
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Your tables are not suggesting that the 11 sample languages are descended from Atlantean, but that words transformed as tribes or peoples splintered apart, with Atlanteans being one of these splinter groups. Is this somewhat correct?

Mostly correct.  My hypothesis is that Atlantean could have been a "linking group" between various other groups by way of trade contact.  This may have been a lingua franca in oceanic coastal cities as primitive coastal tribes prepared themselves for communication with Atlantean merchants bringing wondrous trade goods from far off lands.  Over time the two-way influences of words would have transmitted in varying degrees over and across Atlantis' entire trade network.  This isn't to say the various languages "come from" Atlantean, but that individual words here and there would have networked their way around the world, transmitted via Atlantean traders.

Do you foresee an effective way to track the path of splintering among the peoples associated with these languages, perhaps by somehow graphing out this linguistic splintering alongside genetic migrations?

I think it can be done, with a much more monumental amount of effort than I have put into it so far.  What really needs to be done is a comprehensive etymological analysis among all ancient languages, similar to what has been done toward mapping the genome and tracking human migrations on that basis.  Just as genetics has called certain archaeological dogmas into question with their discovery of haplogroup X, linguistics too might make similar discoveries.

Obviously, as you yourself admit, the resultant Atlantean words are highly speculative. Are they intended to be used as a rough guide in pinpointing the descendants of Atlantis, similar in the way computer morphing technology might approximate the appearance of a child in adulthood? How would this be done? Would this again involve genetic migrations?

The method used is an interpolation similar to what has been done to discover "Indo-European Roots".  The commonalities among words are studied for what the original might have been, which could have morphed in one way in one location, and another way in another location.  Key to that is to find cognate roots, and to also know when those roots are not present (what I call "morph offs").  The original is taken as simply a possibility, and all that it establishes is also a possibility:  a possible relationship between the connected words.  The counter-argument to that possibility has to rely on "mere coincidence", such as an assertion that the Basque and Polynesian and Hebrew words for "Law" are near-identical.  Whoopsie, humans made a mistake and forgot they were supposed to use different words for that.  The hypothesis I'm developing is that the word may have been transported by oceanic mercantile explorers and adventurers, most likely related to the "Phoenicians".  In fact the Phoenician language is one that I want to study more thoroughly to see if the traces of those cognate roots are clearly visible there.

One of the things I noticed in your lists is how all the Atlantean words are lengthy and polysyllabic. Most of the sampled languages have a few monosyllabic words in the list and Polynesian, which does not, has many words composed of three or four letters and two syllables. Shouldn't common words like fire and blood have been weighted in your system toward shortness in line with the rest of the words in a column?

Length in terms of letters doesn't necessarily mean length of pronunciation.  "Tzuarhei" could really be pronounced with the same speed as, if not faster than, the modern Tahitian "Auahi" (from the more archaic Polynesian "Ahi"), because the latter is drawled, and the former could be more slurred.  Also, even within the same language, words can lengthen or shorten over time, so there is no reason to assume they could not in transmission via globe-trotting sailors.

"By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night, On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule —
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime, Out of Space — out of Time." --Edgar Allen Poe
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« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2009, 08:41:24 AM »
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respect of women is ancient tradition.

Respect of women tended to be higher among peoples who believed in reincarnation, due to the notion that anyone could be reborn as a woman.  And "what goes around comes around"!

Lions and tigress went extinct long ago around Caucasus mountain chains. lots of hard of bulls and cows were fighting for survivability against lions and tigers there.
I have no suspect about equal rights among a man and a woman in the Atlantis kingdoms (haplogroup X1). Of course it connected to the roots, to the haplogroup X, before the global flood boundary 24500 years ago
K.M.

Are the Caucasus referred to as "Iberia" in Georgian?  You seem to use those two place-names interchangeably.

"By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night, On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule —
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime, Out of Space — out of Time." --Edgar Allen Poe
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009, 11:42:49 PM »
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Quote - Respect of women tended to be higher among peoples who believed in reincarnation, due to the notion that anyone could be reborn as a woman.  And "what goes around comes around"!

You are right!

Quote - Are the Caucasus referred to as "Iberia" in Georgian?  You seem to use those two place-names interchangeably.
Iberians (haplogroup X2) are our great ancestors!
K.M.
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2009, 12:37:23 PM »
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Are there many X2s in Georgia?

"By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night, On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule —
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime, Out of Space — out of Time." --Edgar Allen Poe
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2009, 02:14:44 PM »
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Are there many X2s in Georgia?
There are sub groups X2e ans X2f mainly. I don't know anything about sub group X2s. It's mistake.
K.M.
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 01:46:12 PM »
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I am reading a very interesting book at the moment about the efforts that linguists are making to develop a Proto-Indo-European language that would have been the original version of all of the current Indo-European languages (English, Spanish, Italian, French, Russian, etc). By looking at the way that each language tends to modify words (s in English vs. es in spanish or Th in English vs. D in German) they've managed to come up with a lot of the so-called Human Universal words that would have existed in a proto-indo-european language (words like mother, father, cow, you, me, etc). I think similar efforts could easily be made for Mediterannean language sets that existed perhaps going back as far as Atlantean times.
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2009, 01:47:19 PM »
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I am reading a very interesting book at the moment about the efforts that linguists are making to develop a Proto-Indo-European language that would have been the original version of all of the current Indo-European languages (English, Spanish, Italian, French, Russian, etc). By looking at the way that each language tends to modify words (s in English vs. es in spanish or Th in English vs. D in German) they've managed to come up with a lot of the so-called Human Universal words that would have existed in a proto-indo-european language (words like mother, father, cow, you, me, etc). I think similar efforts could easily be made for Mediterannean language sets that existed perhaps going back as far as Atlantean times.

The behavior I've noticed with the words I've been tracking is that a word may mean one thing in a "root" language, and then as it branches off into different derivative dialects and languages, the word can remain mostly unchanged, but take on a slightly different flavor of meaning.  Tura as a root for cattle ranch which establishes a rule of law over a territory, descends as "Ture", "Oture", and "Torah", in some languages to denote "Law".  In other languages the same word folds in as "Taureau", "Toro", and "Durra" to mean "bull".  In other languages such as English its footprints are more generally agricultural, such as "Till", or more generally political such as "Tyrant" or "Tyrannical".  In Gaelic the characteristic of the hill on which ancient cattle ranches were built reflects the word as "Tor" or "Tir".

In the pachinko machine of words as they progress through different languages, we lose track of many cognates because the word may pass on, but as they pass on they take on different meanings, different or specified flavors of what the word more generally meant in the more ancient language. 

In the Indo-European language family, scholars are lucky to find a relatively small number of these words which change meanings across languages, probably because the branching of them is more recent in time than the branching of languages out of Central Asia with the scattering of animal-herding tribes.  Therefore they are able to more strictly define cognates of near-identical meanings across these languages.  Outside the IE/PIE language tree, the cognates will need to be looser, looking for the migrations of roots across a continuum of theoretical meanings in the root language.

"By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night, On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule —
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime, Out of Space — out of Time." --Edgar Allen Poe
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« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2009, 12:46:45 PM »
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English            Georgian  (East Iberian)                                 
       
Fire                 [ tsetsxli, ali, kotsoni ]
blood               [ siskhli ]
nine                 [ tskhra ]
Moon                [ mtvare ]
Sun                  [ mze ]
star                  [ varskvlavi ]
salt                  [ marili ]
red                   [ tsiteli ]
below               [ qveda, qvevita, dabla, qvesh, naklebad, naklebi]
circle                [ tsre, spero ]
breathe             [ suntqva ]
bull                   [ khari ]
witch                [ jadoqari, jadosani ]
priest                [ qurumi ]
king                  [ mepe ]
qween               [ dedopali ]
kingdom             [ samepo ]
sea                   [ zgva ]
stone                 [ qva ]
limestone            [kirqva ]
gold                    [ oqro ]
silver                  [ vertskhli ]
copper                [ spilendzi ]
iron                    [ rkina ]
ship                    [gemi ]
boat                   [ navi ]
sail                     [ ialqani. apra]
Georgian words are written as a transcription for english spiking people to say accurate georgian words. We have no transcription!
K.M

I don't know why I didn't notice this list before, but a lot of those words are *VERY* close to Nahuatl.  Holy cow...

More analysis to do!

"By a route obscure and lonely, Haunted by ill angels only,
Where an Eidolon, named Night, On a black throne reigns upright,
I have reached these lands but newly From an ultimate dim Thule —
From a wild weird clime, that lieth, sublime, Out of Space — out of Time." --Edgar Allen Poe
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