The Atlantis Maps Forum

The Atlantis Maps => The Atlantis Maps Book Project => Topic started by: Doug Fisher on April 26, 2009, 04:00:52 PM



Title: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on April 26, 2009, 04:00:52 PM
If Atlantis had truly existed, then we should be able to make a reasonable assessment of its current location...


  • (http://www.atlantismaps.com/Ch7_images/img_10.jpg)

View the Article... (http://atlantismaps.com/chapter_7.html)

In case you're asking, "So when and how did South America sink" as Ciggy does below, please read my commentary Atlantis: The Continent That Solon Sank (http://www.atlantismaps.com/comm_7a.html).


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: dtheiler on April 28, 2009, 12:50:52 AM
From all my reading of Atlantis, and I have many books on the subject, I believe the author is getting very close to the truth. This is very good.


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on April 28, 2009, 09:10:27 AM
Thanks dtheiler and welcome to the forum.


Title: Chapter 7 - Overview
Post by: Doug Fisher on June 13, 2009, 05:50:32 PM
Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars (http://www.atlantismaps.com/chapter_7.html) proposes a new theory based solely on Solon's geographical specifications for Atlantis as recorded in Plato's dialogues, Timaeus and Critias. Solon set forth a complex and very specific array of geographical features comprising alignments, relative positioning and dimensions, which limits the site for Atlantis to only one possible location: South America and Argentina's Mesopotamian Plain.

  • (http://www.atlantismaps.com/Ch7_images/img_06.jpg)

Not only is Argentina's Mesopotamian Plain the only sizable rectangular plain in the world defined by waterways on all four sides, which is in accordance with Solon's description, its perimeter is only 50 miles off from the stated 1,150-miles, or 10,000 stadia. Further, the plain lies in the center of the continent, is oriented with its narrower width extending from the coast inland, is surrounded by mountains on three sides, but open toward the south, and lies within 14.5 miles of the sea, all per Solon's specifications.

Here's a more complete list of geographical specifications this theory meets which can also be found in the article along with much more detail and further insights:

  • A continent sized island (South American 'nesos' [see article for explanation])
  • Opposite the Pillars of Hercules (The Strait of Gibraltar) and
  • Located in the Atlantic Ocean with
  • Associated islands (the Caribbean Islands)
  • Forming a distinct path to a continent (North America) at the opposite end.
  • Having a lofty precipitous coastline (South America's Brazilian Highlands) transitioning to
  • A flat even rectangular plain (Argentina's Mesopotamian Plain)
  • Located at the center of the island (center of South American 'nesos')
  • Within 14.5-miles of the sea that is
  • Delineated on all four sides by channels of water (the Parana and Uruguay rivers) with
  • A perimeter of approximately 10,000 stadia (10,455 stadia or 1,200 miles actual. Only 50 miles longer than the specified 10,000 stadia or 1,150 miles.) and
  • Oriented with its narrower width extending from the coast inland, and also having
  • A climate conducive to biannual harvests.
  • Pocketed in by mountains to the west (Andes), north, and east (Brazilian Highlands), but open toward the sea in the south with
  • River ways from the surrounding mountain ranges feeding the rivers that flow around the plain, converge, and then empty into the sea in the south. (Rio Pilcomayo, Rio Bermejo, Rio Salado and Rio Dulce flowing down from the Andes in the west. The Parana and Uruguay Rivers dropping down onto the plain from the Brazilian Highlands in the north and the Rio Ibicui, Rio Arapey Grande, and Rio Queguay sourced from smaller mountains in the east, to name just a few.)

There also exists a circular landform positioned per Solon's specifications which measures exactly the diameter of Atlantis' capital city:


  • (http://www.atlantismaps.com/Ch7_images/img_15.jpg)
    Figure 15 - Lines A, B, and C represent Solon's specified 14.5-mile distance extending
    between the plain and the sea with a center point at 7.25 miles representing the center point of the
    island city. Lines A and C represent extreme placements where the island city would lie closest to the
    Parana and the confluence of the Parana and Uruguay rivers.  Line B aligns the channel so that the
    center point is equidistant from the Mesopotamian plain and the sea. Multiple other channel placements
    would find the city's center located between these three points along or near arc ABC. Equidistant
    point B mysteriously sits atop a circular landform while line B itself lies near channels of similar
    lengths matching those stated to lead from the plain to the sea.



  • (http://www.atlantismaps.com/Ch7_images/img_16.jpg)
    Figure 16 -  Satellite image (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=-33.892362,-58.552322&spn=0.202626,0.317574&t=k&z=12) of the circular landform in the Parana Delta (top). Same image (below)
    with a 2.50-mile dimension set with  Google Earth™ to establish scale. The yellow overlain
    rings conform to the concentric rings of Atlantis and have been scaled to the image. While
    the circular landform does not appear to have any demarcations suggesting the existence of
    inner zones, the outside diameter of Atlantis’ outermost land zone at 2.41 miles (21 stadia) is
    an extraordinarily close match with this Parana Delta landform. The waterway surrounding the
    landform also conforms closely to Atlantis’ outer zone of water, which was to have had an
    outside diameter of 3.10 miles (27 stadia).

The delta location would be susceptible to liquefaction during a quake, which could explain why the warlike men are described as having "sank into the earth" and not the sea.

Quote
There occurred violent earthquakes and floods; in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. - (Timaeus)


While tsunamis or additional liquefaction saw the city isle completely sinking beneath the sea.

-Doug


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Dee-Kay on June 23, 2009, 09:48:45 AM
some very nice work, i must say


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on June 23, 2009, 10:04:21 AM
Thanks Dee-Kay. Welcome aboard.


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Dee-Kay on June 23, 2009, 10:06:39 AM
im not 100% yet but i think i may have a few incling's


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Ciggy on October 28, 2009, 08:34:37 AM
So when and how did South America sink?


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on October 29, 2009, 02:10:03 AM
So when and how did South America sink?


Hello Ciggy,

Hope all is going well.

I posted my response HERE (http://www.atlantismaps.com/forum/index.php/topic,71.0.html).

-Doug


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Ciggy on February 10, 2010, 09:08:10 AM
I'm beginning to wonder, would this kingdom necessarily have been called "Atlantis"?  So much of the legends of Thule point to the region of Iceland, and the "Tulan" of the Mayans and "Aztlan" of the Mexica, is supposed to have been "northeast across the sea" from Central America.  Barring a pole shift, it's difficult to imagine the Aztlan/Tulan homeland of the "TUL-tecs" (A-TUL-anteans, a.k.a. THULEans) having been so blatantly reversed in direction.

But if both kingdoms existed, and the name for one was transposed out of ignorance by the Egyptians, onto the other, that would explain the conflict (as well as the presence of South American cocaine in the mummified remains of Egypt's Pharaohs).


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Ciggy on February 10, 2010, 09:34:46 AM
I may actually be able to answer my own question here.

From Chapter 3 of "Atlantis, The Antediluvian World":

Quote
The Cakchiquel MS. says: "Four persons came from Tulan, from the direction of the rising sun--that is one Tulan. There is another Tulan in Xibalbay, and another
BEARDED HEAD, FROM TEOTEHUACAN.
where the sun sets, and it is there that we came; and in the direction of the setting sun there is another, where is the god; so that there are four Tulans; and it is where the sun sets that we came to Tulan, from the other side of the sea, where this Tulan is; and it is there that we were conceived and begotten by our mothers and fathers."

That is to say, the birthplace of the race was in the East, across the sea, at a place called Tulan and when they emigrated they called their first stopping-place on the American continent Tulan also; and besides this there were two other Tulans.

It seems this ancient race migrated to a number of places, and everywhere they settled they called "Tulan".  So the South American "Atlantis" may have been one of many "Tulans".

Fascinating...

And further on in that chapter:
Quote
Both countries are magnificent, exceedingly fertile, and abound in the precious metals. The empire of Atlantis was divided into ten kingdoms, governed by five couples of twin sons of Poseidon, the eldest being supreme over the others; and the ten constituted a tribunal that managed the affairs of the empire. Their descendants governed after them. The ten kings of Xibalba, who reigned (in couples) under Hun-Came and Vukub-Came (and who together constituted a grand council of the kingdom), certainly furnish curious points of comparison. And there is wanting neither a catastrophe--for Xibalba had a terrific inundation--nor the name of Atlas, of which the etymology is found only in the Nahuatl tongue: it comes from atl, water; and we know that a city of Atlan (near the water) still existed on the Atlantic side of the Isthmus of Panama at the time of the Conquest.

So we have a new working hypothesis shaping up here:  that the South American Atlantis was a part of a kingdom known as Xibalba (or Xibalbay), and that Atlan ("City by the Water") was the capital city thereof (the one that sunk and which Solon mistook for the whole continent sinking).  And as a "Tulanic" or "Tultec" city, it would have alternatively been referred to as "a Tulan", that is, a city of Toltec culture.

And by my previous linguistic study, this series of "Tulans" would lead back to a primordial, prehistoric "Turan", the Central Asian steppe, inhabited by those identified in the Persian Shahnameh as the descendants of "Turaj", comprising those of Indo-European ancestry who ruled north of the Oxus (Amu Darya) river.  From there they spread the "Tur" culture which later became the "Tul" or "Tultec" or "Toltec" culture, farther west.  This Central Asian homeland was remembered in Mexica legend as "Hue Hue Tlapalan" (Old Old Red Land), and the homeland of Quetzalcoatl, who, by description, appears quite similar to a proto-Buddhistic mystic or Medean astrologer of some sort.

It all comes together, perhaps a little too perfectly, which means there are flaws to locate, hehe...


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on February 10, 2010, 01:23:35 PM
I'll check this out further this afternoon.

It all comes together, perhaps a little too perfectly, which means there are flaws to locate, hehe...

LOL. Ain't that the truth. I am very familiar with that feeling. :)
But initially this does looks pretty good.

-Doug


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on February 11, 2010, 01:12:27 AM
Got to this late so I really haven't had much of an opportunity to do thorough research, but did note this curious similarity within the manuscript notes:

Quote
The occurrence of the Aztec name of the City of Light, Tulan (properly, Tonatlan)"

The digitized manuscript can be found here: http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924021067990/cu31924021067990_djvu.txt (http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924021067990/cu31924021067990_djvu.txt)

-Doug


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Ciggy on February 11, 2010, 11:21:01 AM
As expected, that manuscript brings up interesting problems to resolve.   8)


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on February 11, 2010, 01:46:10 PM
Have you come across 'Tonatlan' before? And is there any legitimacy in saying that Tonatlan is more 'proper' than Tulan?

I assume these are some of the problems you might be referring to. If so, I'm anxious to see what your research will find...  :popcorn_soda:

-Doug


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Ciggy on February 12, 2010, 03:57:15 PM
Have you come across 'Tonatlan' before? And is there any legitimacy in saying that Tonatlan is more 'proper' than Tulan?

I assume these are some of the problems you might be referring to. If so, I'm anxious to see what your research will find...  :popcorn_soda:

-Doug

So far just a tiny issue.  The author is debunking the notion of the etymological relationship between the "TUL" root in Tulan with "TOLtecs".  Worst case scenario, I guessed wrong about an ancillary discovery that doesn't have a direct bearing on Atlantis itself.

Although the article is giving as much as it's taking away.  It supplied the interesting nugget that the Nahuatl name for the Tzutuhils was Tecpan Atitlan, or "Nation of Atitlan" (with Atitlan being an alternative representation of Atlan, Aztlan, or "Atlantis").

Tonatlan isn't a problem, etymologically.  Just a footnote, etc.


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on February 19, 2010, 08:41:26 PM
Hi Ciggy,

Sorry for the extremely, extremely late reply. I had a chance to see your hypothesis when it was first posted, then had to head out and about and have been caught up in a whirlwind of events since with life likely to get much busier for me in the next several weeks. I even began this reply a few days ago and just got back on the site today to finish it. I have been hoping to study The Annals Of The Cakchiquels in depth before responding, but still have not had a chance.

So I thought I would quickly pop in and say that I was indeed very impressed with much of your hypothesis including the link you made between Xibalbay and Shambhala. To be honest, I am still on the fence on the much of this mostly due to having very little knowledge in this field, but you've definitely presented an interesting and convincing hypothesis.

Sorry again for the delay and nice work Ciggy.

-Doug


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Ciggy on February 22, 2010, 12:56:41 PM
Your work was the breakthrough I needed, as it explains more of the phenomenae than solely that of a Thulean Ice Bridge crossing from Europe to the Americas.  Cocaine in the mummified pharaohs, for example:

http://reneodeay.blogspot.com/2007/04/ramses-hair-evidence-of-cocaine.html (http://reneodeay.blogspot.com/2007/04/ramses-hair-evidence-of-cocaine.html)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1553039/Voyage-to-prove-pharaohs-traded-cocaine.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1553039/Voyage-to-prove-pharaohs-traded-cocaine.html)

These are interesting times.   8)


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: apavl on May 22, 2012, 12:54:16 PM
How do you know that the riverbeds did not change for thousands years and/or as a result of earthquakes?
Andrey 


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Doug Fisher on May 22, 2012, 01:21:42 PM
Hello apavl ,

I do not doubt that there has been some alteration of the outlying rivers. The Tigris and Euphrates have been altered over thousands of years, but the overall shape of the Mesopotamian plain lying between has remained virtually intact throughout.

Should you be interested, I have posted a more in-depth graphical presentation here (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread821281/pg1). I will be replicating the thread in this forum soon.

-Doug


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: redbird on March 28, 2013, 05:09:47 PM
It never was "The land Beyond The Pillars" that mistake was made by Plato, It was made on purpose to mislead you and everyone else - It is, was and always will be "The Land Beyond the Poles" We all know were this land is, and it is still at the same place it always has been, "Inside The Hollow Earth"  This land can be reached at or from either pole, it is located at true north or true south. --- It Is the land of mystery, Giants, mermaids, Greys, Big Foot and all the other weird things that people have told you about - It really is just that simple, you are being mislead looking for Atlantis some were beyond the pillars and in all these other under water places - Hitler knew were it is, Admiral Byrd knew and I know, 1000's of people seem to know! ---- So it looks to me like the only people who don't know are really not looking very hard or they are just trying to mislead others - Start your search at either pole and you can see this land of mystery real easy - Post this and post the truth.  "The Land Beyond the Poles" The Hollow Earth Truth......


Title: Re: Chapter 7 - Atlantis: The Land Beyond The Pillars
Post by: Kriz on July 19, 2013, 08:23:14 PM
If Atalntis exists in South America there should be some Archeological evidence of the city left behind?